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Identifier
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DornanEllie
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Title
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Ellie Dornan Oral History Interview
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Date
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13 September 2018
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Creator
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Ellie Dornan
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Contributor
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Pat Barte
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extracted text
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Ellie Dornan
Interviewed by Pat Barte
The Evergreen State College oral history project
September 13, 2018
DRAFT
[Begin Part 1 of 2 of Ellie Dornan on September 13, 2018]
Barte: Okay, let’s begin. Today is Thursday, September 13, 2018, and we are in Ellie Dornan’s dining
room. Ellie is sharing a copy of an Evergreen organization chart which was created by College Relations
in 1989.
Dornan: When I moved here to Panorama, I had to trim down my belongings; I’m sure I had a larger
store of Evergreen memories and mementos that would be helpful now. I had quite a bit of wonderful
memories about Evergreen at one time.
Evergreen was my favorite place. It is still my favorite place. I have really fond memories of the
“old days” at TESC, even though the Olympia community didn’t like us at all. The community members,
and our local newspaper, The Olympian, were downright mean to us, so we, faculty and staff-hung
together particularly the female faculty and the female staff. I remember there were baseball games
and soccer matches on summer evenings on campus, then we’d gather for snacks at someone’s house. I
still have really fond memories of Evergreen and all that we went through, the staff and the faculty, in
those early years. But somehow, we managed to pull together, and to heck with our critics. Our critics
were cruel.
Barte: Who were the critics?
Dornan: The town folks. You see, the newspapers weren’t on our side either in those early days. I
don’t know what the problem was exactly. I worked for the State Legislature in 1967. I was a secretary
to a senator. There was a bill offered in the Legislature that would allow the state to build a new college.
There were votes as to where it would be located. There was quite a to-do about just where it would be
located. I was worried because I wanted so much for it to be in Olympia. It was getting close to shutdown on the last day of the session when this bill finally came to the floor for a vote. It was 3:00 a.m.
and everyone was tired and cranky. The bill passed and I was happy to see that the new college would
be located in Olympia. The senator I worked for at the time, as did legislator, wanted to have it in their
own district because they wanted the income the new college would bring to their community.
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Anyway, I was called aside by my senator and he said, “You’re worried about where the college
might be.” And I said, “Yes.” He said, “Don’t worry. It’s going to be in Olympia. But don’t say anything
yet. We have some work to do, but it’ll be in Olympia.” So I spent the rest of the session very happy
that we were going to have a new university, and it did come to pass in 1967 [when] the law passed.
Then it took a year or two because they began to hire staff. They needed key staff. They hired
the President, Charles McCann; they hired his secretary, Rita Grace; they hired the business person,
Dean Clabaugh. The builders were still there. There were still buildings being built, and so we had a lot
of folks who were carpenters and plumbers working on there, and the boss was there, too.
Anyway, the school finally opened in 1970 because the first graduating class was in 1971. One
of the first graduates was the man who represents us in Congress, Denny Heck. I believe he was in the
first graduating class, or if he wasn’t, was right up there.
I was working at State Parks in 1972, I lived about a mile from where the new college was going
to be so I thought, I’ve got three interviews. One of them was with Les Eldridge. I decided and was
accepted by the person who was starting a Co-op Ed. Office, Ken Donohue, Director of Cooperative
Education Department. An Evergreen State College student, Dan Swecker, was hired by Donohue to
assist in organizing the Co-op Ed program and getting it started. Some years later Dan Swecker was
elected to the Washington State legislature Senate. I interviewed and was hired by Ken Donohue for the
oly house secretary position, starting at the beginning of a new project was right up my alley, so I was
happy to get the job. I came to be a staff member at Evergreen on October 2, 1972. I love starting
projects. It was nice to be in on the beginning. We—I say Evergreen—set up an ideal college, and the
ideal was to have four deans. That was too many. As time went on, the budget went down, and two
deans had to be dropped. I think that they never did come back, I believe, as long as I was there. Dean
Ed Kormondy was one of the deans I remember.
Anyway, I worked at Co-op Ed, and after about three months I thought, well, since I’m working
here, why don’t I get my degree? So I enrolled in an evening class with Dave Hitchens. I really liked it a
lot, and so I decided to enroll. They sent for my credentials and I had gone to school in 1930 and
Vancouver still had my transcripts from 1930 right through high school in 1939, so I was able to enroll. It
took me six years, because I was starting from scratch. It was the best six years I ever spent. I had some
wonderful faculty. Ted [Gerstel? 00:03:24] was a psychologist at that point. One of our teachers who
was teaching finance is still teaching. Oh . . . he’s having a do. Maybe I wrote it on my calendar. No, I
put D. One of the faculty is having a get-together. Tom Rainey.
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Barte: Of course. Wonderful man.
Dornan: And he’s still teaching.
Barte: Yes.
Dornan: He loves teaching, he said. I’ve seen him at one or two social events where there have been
some Greeners, and he just looks the same.
Dornan: I guess he’s having some sort of remembrance or something at the end of this month at home.
Potluck, what else?
Barte: Yeah. [laughter] What else did do we have at Evergreen but potlucks?
Dornan: Yeah. Do they still have potlucks?
Barte: Oh, yeah, they do.
Dornan: We used to have a lot of potlucks, and the students invariably brought the same dish. But
what they tried to do was they would bake brownies with marijuana in them, and they would try to
entice me to have brownies. I overheard one of the students say, “Get Ellie! Make sure! She ought to
be fun after a couple of brownies.” I never fell for it. [laughing]
Barte: Good. Tell me about the Wild Water Women.
Dornan: Oh, yeah. In those earlier days—’72-’73-‘74—we were disliked by the town’s folks. They called
us hippies, which I guess we were. And they complained about all the dogs on campus pooping on the
carpet and all this. But there was small number of faculty in those days compared to today, and they
were new and the staff was all new. So somehow the faculty and the staff, especially the women, sort
of joined together, and we did things together.
There were several trips away from campus. Dean Barbara Smith and her secretary, Joanne
Jirovec were the leaders of these projects. Every outing seemed to begin with that duo, Barbara, Joanne
or a member of the faculty would come up with a good idea for a trip and Joanne would spread the
news. There were always plenty of interested travelers.
I do remember the Harrison Hot Springs trip in particular. There were two busloads of us faculty
and staff women. I seem to remember that there were 38 of us and we were housed in little cabins. Dan
Evans was president of Evergreen then, and the college was suffering some staff shortages and, of
course, a budget cut. The first evening away, the whole group squeezed into one of the small cabins for
snacks and wine and a determination to solve Evergreen’s staffing problem while saving the college
money. One of the staff positions was the Director of Facilities and the other opening was for a Director
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of Personnel. We pondered and sipped and then the lightening bolt hit—join the two positions!!and
save the college one salary. Brilliant!! I will admit our brains were a little foggy. With such a grand idea
for saving money, our college president, Dan Evans, had to be notified immediately. Getting the
operator to send a telegram took a little doing, but we did it. The next morning, we were all scattered
near the dam when we heard a female voice shout “we have a reply to our telegram!” We swarmed like
a family of bees heading for “the voice.” As it turned out, upon reading our telegram, our esteemed
president had fired the whole bunch of us. Or, as he put it, “Your pink slips are in the mail.” We did
learn, however, that he was not angry. He enjoyed the joke and it was said he felt more like “one of us”
Greeners because of it. To my knowledge, no one ever did actually receive a pink slip.
Another trip was to a dude ranch in Eastern Washington. We arrived and took over the place.
Again, there were at least 30 of us faculty and staff women. We actually went horseback riding—yep, all
of us! What a bunch of tenderfeet or whatever you’d call a whole bunch of city gals who didn’t try to “fit
in.” We were determined to do our own thing and we did. The first and only casualty was Maxine
Mimms, who fell off her horse and received minor injuries. She took full advantage of her position
located in a comfortable chair surrounded with blankets and looking very queenly while “her subjects”
gathered around making sympathetic noises. Here Dan Evans shows up again. He sent us a case of
champagne. The ranch owners were befuddled—completely befuddled—who are these people to
receive a case of champagne from the Governor of Washington State? We had brought games and
music, so we danced and sang and generally had a raucous time when were weren’t astride one of the
horses, investigating the countryside. But to receive a telegram from the Governor requesting a case a
champagne be delivered to those very strange people was beyond the ranch owner’s comprehension.
After that, one of the ranch hands dropped by during one of our more rambunctious early evening
gatherings. He just had to find out who ARE these people? He stayed for a while and helped us drink the
governor’s champagne. After that we were Okay with the ranchers. Still strange, but Okay.
Another never-to-be-forgotten event was our ill-fated river rafting journey down the Deschutes
River in Eastern Washington. It seems, as I remember, that all the staff—eight of us—ended up in one
raft and fortunately for us, the rafting owner was in our raft. The river was running high and swift as we
got our instructions. Then it was: “Cast Off! Here we Go!” We scarcely got going when “Whoops!” one of
our group was in the water. That water was cold! The rafting owner jumped up and helped pull our
soaking member back into the raft. Well, it was too late to chart course because the raft was doing its
own thing—capsizing. There we were, eight women bobbing around in swiftly running water. I
remember going under a big log; my eyes were open so all I could see were bubbles. I was being carried
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down the river like a big fish. I remembered to turn so my feet were going downstream, and then began
to paddle with my arms, hoping to get to shore. That worked. But I was out of the water before the
others, so when the others were located further downstream, Miss Ellie was not with them. The good
ole Fire Department was called into action to find me, while someone from a hillside cabin called to me
to hang in there—I would be rescued. Fortunately, no one was lost or badly hurt, although one of our
gentler sisters did spend overnight at a local hospital. She was the one who was dunked and very cold.
Those of us still standing joined the more fortunate (and drier) members of our group for a big dinner
and bigger celebration.
Those are the faculty-staff outings I remember. There are probably many others that I don’t
remember or wasn’t a part of.
y women and the staff women, and we would go down the river. We decided that we’d go river
rafting. So they got quite a crowd together. I was supposed to go, but I had surgery, so I wasn’t able to
go. So I can’t give you very much information about that, but there still are women who made that trip.
That was successful, so we did other kinds of things after that. We did floating down the river
over in Eastern Washington, and that turned out to be somewhat of a disaster. There were faculty and
staff. We had at least three boats, and we had a leader, a man that was their job to take people down
the river. The river was running quite high and quite fast. We had the leader in our boat, and our boat
was all staff. I think I’ll be able to remember some of the people on it.
We got in the boat and he showed us how to paddle. But the river all of a sudden just took us,
and all of a sudden, one of the women fell out of the boat. I was sitting at the back with the owner—the
leader of the group—and I said, “Oh! There goes”—and so he leaped up and our boat kind of went . . .
and then all of a sudden, our boat was like this so that we were down here. People in the front were
paddling, but they were paddling air because—and then we hit a log and the boat overturned, and we
all in that boat were in the water. I remember going under a log and all these bubbles coming up,
because I floated under the log and popped up, because we all had life things on.
The next thing I remember is floating down the river and remembering one of the things was
“Put your feet first.” I remember “feet first” as I was like this, going down the river. Then I began to
paddle and I got myself over to the side of the river and onto land. I looked up and there were some
homes, and a woman called to me. “We’ve sent for help,” she said.
I got out first, and the others seemed to land in the same place. They counted off, and I was the
one that was missing. They couldn’t see me because they were further down the river. So I started to
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climb the hill. I got a ways up the hill and they the neighbors had sent for help and the fire
department—good old firefighters, bless their hearts—came and they were looking for me, because
they’d found all the others. It was a relief to everybody. The other boats had just gone merrily on and
they were fine. That was excitement. They wanted us to take another boat, but none of us really
wanted to. [laughing]
Barte: I don’t blame you. I wouldn’t.
Dornan: We were sopping wet.
Barte: And cold.
Dornan: And cold. Yeah, we didn’t want to at that point. And I’ve never been river rafting since.
However, the first part of it was fun. [laughing] But being dunked wasn’t so much fun, although it was a
hot day. That was one of the trips we made.
I was trying to think. I knew there were at least a couple of others. One time we stayed
overnight. We all got in our jammies and stayed overnight down at the farm. There was a house there.
Barte: Organic Farm?
Dornan: Organic Farm. We stayed there one night and sort of ate and drank. Oh! And then, when Dan
Evans was President, there were money problems with Evergreen and we lost two pivotal people. There
were two. We lost two people. So the group of us, we went over to Eastern Washington—no, we
didn’t. We went to Harrison Hot Springs, two busloads of us. I remember Maxine Mimms was in the
group with us and we had little cabins that we each shared. We all got together for dinner at the
restaurant. There were a lot of us, 19 or 20 of us. Afterwards, we had lots of wine. So we all gathered
in one of the cabins, and the cabin was really too small for us, but we were sitting on the floor and
sitting on chairs and sitting on benches, the whole bunch of us, and we were deciding how we were
going to improve Evergreen. We needed two people, and money wasn’t there and all that. So we came
up with some harebrained scheme about combining the two jobs. One of them was personnel and the
other was the building.
Barte: Facilities?
Dornan: Yeah. We were so excited with it, we decided Dan Evans had to know. So we got together and
we sent a telegram. I think we were all high as kites because the woman who we had called to give the
telegram, she was not going to do it. We told her, “Oh, yes, yes, you will.” Anyway, she did. “The Wild
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Water Women had decided how we can save money by combining these two jobs.” Of course it was
ridiculous.
He was really sweet. He didn’t feel—well, I knew him. I didn’t know him well, but I had worked
the Legislatures in ’67 and ’69 and ’71, so I had met him several times. He recognized me and knew me
by name. So we sent this telegram to him, and he sent one back. The next morning we were out and
about and somebody came yelling. [high-pitched voice] “We got a reply! We got a reply!” And we all
came running and sat down, and she read the reply.
I don’t remember exactly what the telegram was, although I may have a copy of it. I never
thought of it till just now. He fired the whole bunch of us and told us our pink slips would be in the mail.
Well, I took it as a pink slip. I remember writing back to him and saying, “How kind of you to give us all a
pink slip.” [laughter] I said, “I really do like pink, and I just thought you’d want to know my size. A
medium would be perfect.”
This thing went on, and he was evidently hysterical. He was just enjoying this to no end. On the
way back down from Harrison Hot Springs, one bus went earlier. I think one bus went at noon or
something like that, and the other bus didn’t go till 3:00. They wanted to stay longer. So when we got
to the border, I got out of the bus and the guy came to talk to us. I got out and I said, “Could you join us
in a little fun thing?” He said, “What is it?” I said, “Well, we’ve got another busload coming. Could you
sort of question them a little bit?” I explained who we were, and that we had all been fired, and that he
was getting a kick [out of it]. They get dull stuff, you know. He said, “Hey, Sam! C’mon over!” So we
conspired with the two of them that they were going to be a little tough on the second bus.
Off we went, and the next day, they said, “Boy, did you have trouble at the border?” We said,
“No.” I thought they were really scared, because one of them had a bottle of booze she was bringing
back. I don’t know what the guy said to them, but he questioned them. They were going . . . and we
never told them that we did it. [laughter]
Barte: It’s probably a good thing you didn’t.
Dornan: I think so. We just kind of grinned. That was funny, but we never got our pink slips, paper or
otherwise. But he did say that he loved it because he said that he didn’t really feel that he belonged. So
I had suggested to him that he just do a walkthrough every once [in a while] and just say hello to people.
I said, “You don’t have to stop, but just go into a different department every once in a while and just
walk through, like you’re going somewhere. Just wave and say, ‘Hello. Hello.’” And he did. He said he
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felt better. People “Oh! Hello!” You know. They thought that he was going to be snobbish, I think, or
above them. He did that.
You know, he’s got a birthday coming up in November. We’re the same age. I should try to—I’ll
talk to Karen Fraser. I’ll try to get his address in Seattle and send him a birthday card and say, “Where is
my pink slip?” [laughter]
Barte: “I’m still waiting for it.” Yeah, you should.
Dornan: I forgot about that. Dan Evans. Yeah. I think I can get his address. He’s still alive. He came to
Evergreen after Les Purce had been President. But Les had only been there a very short time. When we
had a celebration—it might have been an anniversary or something—Les brought [chuckles] three of his
buddies from Idaho. They were all dressed like cowboys, jeans and white shirts.
Barte: This was Les Purce?
Dornan: Yeah. I said, “You’re a cow person!” He said, “I’m a cowboy, Ellie!” Well, he brought these
two or three cowboys. In my opinion, he didn’t pay enough attention to Dan Evans. Dan was there.
Barte: This was the campaign kickoff up on the fourth floor?
Dornan: Yes.
Barte: I remember that.
Dornan: Les left with his . . .
Barte: He left early.
Dornan: And I looked around, I was the only one there who Dan knew. So I said, “Well, I’ll have to do
it.” Dan and Nancy started to leave and I followed them to the elevator and I said, “Thank you so very
much for coming. I know it’s a trip to get down from Seattle these days and back. You’re very much a
part of Evergreen, you know. Thank you for coming.” And I saw them to the elevator. I didn’t walk
them to their car.
Well, the next day I was at work and the President came roaring down the hall and said, “Ellie
Dornan! Who have you been talking to in town today?” I said, “Nobody. The only person I talked to
this morning was Rita Cooper.” He said, “I understand you were the only one that said good-bye.” And I
said, “Yes, I did. Somebody had to do it.” He didn’t swear at me but he was really mad at me. I said,
“Yes, I did.” He said, “Did you see Dan Evans?” That was it. I said, “I did. Somebody had to do it.” He
said, “Word on the street is that Ellie Dornan said good-bye to the [unintelligible 00:24:02].” And I said,
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“I haven’t talked to anybody. Maybe Dan Evans said. I don’t know anything about it.” Of course, Les
was embarrassed.
Barte: He should be.
Dornan: I thought so. And he yelled at me and I stood up to him.
Barte: Your notice of that was not alone. Do you remember Valley Jo Fry?
Dornan: Uh-huh.
Barte: She was the assistant to the vice president for Finance.
Dornan: Yes.
Barte: She was there as well, and she was appalled that the guest of honor, who was Dan Evans, had to
more or less slither out the door by himself.
Dornan: Yes.
Barte: She thought we were very, very ungracious as a host.
Dornan: Yes! Well, I looked around to see who else was there that could do it, like one of the faculty or
one of the deans. I didn’t have much time because Dan and Nancy were heading for the elevator, so I
just hurried over. He knew me and he recognized me, but I think he was hurt.
Barte: He should have been.
Dornan: I felt really bad. I didn’t belabor it, but I just said, “Thank you.” I said, “I don’t seem to see Les
around.” I knew Les had gone with his buddies. But he didn’t realize, I guess, that Dan had been
Governor, and he had also been a national senator.
Barte: And he was the focal point for the campaign. That was the kickoff for the very first campaign we
attempted.
Dornan: Yes.
Barte: We brought him down here as the guest of honor, and we didn’t . . .
Dornan: Yes. That was kind of sad. I came to like Les very much. I appreciated him. He was a kind
man.
Barte: Told good stories. I remember when he interviewed for his position as Vice President for
Advancement—his first positon with us—he had a sore throat and you brought him in a cup of tea. I
always thought that was such a sweet gesture on your part.
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Dornan: Yeah, he had a great personality. Maybe he still does. I haven’t seen him for years. He was
likable, really likable.
I went back to Evergreen when there was the—remember the lecture hall. Remember that
hideous building where you’d walk in and you’d go . . .
Barte: . . . down into the pit. Yes.
Dornan: . . . down into the pit. When that was remodeled, which was fairly recently, they named it for
Les.
Barte: Purce Hall.
Dornan: I had to go because I really did like Les. He was kind of my boss for a while because we didn’t
have a Director of Development for a while, and so I reported to him and I got my evaluation from him.
But I was appalled at that event to name the building, with those raucous students. I didn’t think it was
appropriate.
Barte: No, it was not.
Dornan: I appreciate that they were unhappy, I appreciate that they wanted to—but that was not the
venue, and I told them.
Barte: Good for you.
Dornan: I said, “You’re being very rude, and you’re being disrespectful to the man whose building has
his name.” She said, “I don’t care.” I said, “That’s the problem. You should.” That’s all I said to her.
Barte: Good job.
Dornan: But I was ashamed for them, really. That faculty member—who just was grabbing for publicity,
in my opinion—did not do Evergreen a good service. There is problems with enrollment, and I think that
the faculty member made sure that it was in every newspaper in the country. I think that that was our
little problem, not the world’s problem, or the nation’s problem, or the educational people in the
country. I think we’ll probably suffer for it for a little while, because they lost some good people
because of the budget cuts. Kind of broke my heart because it reminded me so much of the earlier days
when we struggled so hard to be appreciated, or at least to be recognized in a non-negative way.
Barte: What do you think brought them out of that non-negative way? What changed the perception?
Dornan: Well, I think that they cheapened the school. I think that they didn’t seem to know what they
wanted. I asked one of the women, “What is it you want?” “We want to be recognized.” But the thing
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is, I found out later that most of them were not doing the work. They were not sending in their papers.
They sent in nothing. They just appeared to come to cause a ruckus and not to come as a student. They
weren’t students. They enrolled, but they didn’t do the work, so I think they just wanted to make a
noise.
Barte: And they did.
Dornan: And be heard.
Barte: When you said in the early days that the people did not recognize Evergreen. What changed that
perception?
Dornan: I think persistence. Oh, I think one of the big things was we were in the Best Colleges in the
country. We made the high on that many times over, and I think that Evergreen kind of used that as a
recruiting tool. They’d be smart if they did. Because from the East Coast or even South, they only know
what they read in the paper. We had some big successes in our students. There were a lot of them in
Hollywood in very big jobs because Evergreen had all the modern equipment for moviemaking and for
television.
Barte: Yes.
Dornan: At that point, we had the top of everything. We had faculty members who knew how to work
them and knew how to use them. So when our students graduated and went out to Hollywood or
wherever it is they went, they could operate that machine. So, they made names for themselves. There
were several—several women, too—and men, as you know. So I think we were living in a good world
there for a while. But then, you see, as the enrollment lowers, we get less money, and so we can’t keep
up to our own standards.
Barte: I do remember when all that wonderful equipment started to get antiquated. It was sad.
Because I remember when we first opened, I remember my husband coming out, and he would come
home and say, “Oh my god! You could put on a major motion picture out there at your school.” He was
so impressed with all of that equipment. But then, of course, over the years, we couldn’t keep it up.
Dornan: Yes. And we still have, in some quarters, the hippie element. When I moved here, we have a
program at Panorama that introduces—you’re sit and you’re interviewed, and we have a television
station. So, I was interviewed. I wanted to make sure that people knew I was a Greener. I spoke for
Evergreen, and I said, “Yes, I’m a Greener and I’m proud of it.” Then I said, “Evergreen has brought
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prosperity to this town.” So I’ve never been accosted as a Greener because I just admit it, and I’m proud
of it.
But we get all sorts here. We have mostly pretty well-educated people. Lots of professionals.
Got a lot of medical people. We’ve got bucket loads of nurses—retired nurses, retired doctors, retired
people who were in the medical business, machines sort of, you know, that sort of stuff. We have a lot
of authors. We have a lot of preachers, believe it or not. There for a while, we had 27 retired preachers
here. We have people who are doers. Most everything here runs by volunteers. We’ve got volunteers
up the wazoo, willing and happy to do things, because we can do it our way. I’ve been very happy here.
I really have. It was a good move, and I feel safe, and I feel appreciated. All I have to do is pick up the
phone and whatever it is I need is available. But I remember Evergreen with fond, fond memories. It
was a good time in my life.
Barte: It was a long time.
Dornan: Yeah, I was there for 21 years. And then I got to be 66, and a lot of people were getting sick at
Evergreen. A lot of people at Evergreen were getting cancer.
Barte: I remember that.
Dornan: I got a little nervous.
Barte: Yeah.
Dornan: It had to have been something, and I thought, well, I’m 66 now. I can get my Social Security
and my pension, which would have been better if I had worked 30 years, but I only worked 25. But I’m
doing okay.
Barte: I remember that time when we had a lot of miscarriages and babies born not right.
Dornan: Oh, yes.
Barte: I thought, what is going on here?
Dornan: And we had a lot of cancer. A lot of young people.
Barte: They never figured it out.
Dornan: No, I don’t think they ever did.
Barte: They did totally remodel the Library building. They totally gutted it remodeled both sides, the
Library side.
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Dornan: It might have been carpeting, glue. I don’t know. When I started counting up the people who
had cancer, I really got frightened. So what I did, I stayed home for a year and got bored out of my
gourd. I remembered that I had three years’ experience at the Legislature in the Senate, so I applied for
a job during the session. Karen Fraser, whom I knew, had been a member of the House of
Representatives for several terms, and decided to run for the Senate. She won, and in the Senate during
session, they were allowed an extra person. And because of my experience previously, she found my
name as I applied for it and she called me for an interview. She wanted to make sure that I could get
along with her person. But Brenda [last name?] and I became inseparable. [laughing] She is years
younger than I am, but we just hit it off. And, as Brenda said, “There’s so many times when we should
have been fired.” [laughter]
Barte: Another pink slip?
Dornan: Yeah. Oh, god. We always called [Karen] Senator when we were at work. That was the
protocol. Brenda said, “Senator, I’m afraid that sometimes I think that we should be fired.” She said,
“Well, I’m not getting any complaints. And as long as I’m not getting any complaints, I don’t care what
you do.” [laughing] So that’s sort of the premise we went on.
I worked there 16 sessions, and by then I was 82. So I thought, this job is too big for me now.
And everybody was cranky, everybody was mean. They were fighting. The Republicans on this side, the
Democrats on that side, and they just [makes a growling sound]. I thought, I don’t need this. So, I said,
“This is my last session.” Brenda begged me, and I said, “No, I’m making too many mistakes and you
know it. Karen deserves better.” And so I didn’t go back. But we’re still friends. I have lunch with her
periodically and we talk about the old days.
There are several people who worked at the Legislature here now. I am in the process of getting
together a lunch with her and with Sandra Romero. I see she just lives down the street; not in
Panorama, she has a house on the water there on the lake.
Barte: I remember Evalyn Poff went to work for Sandra for many years.
Dornan: Yes. Evalyn died, as you recall.
Barte: She did? Oh, I didn’t know that.
Dornan: Yes. Everybody loved Evalyn. She died quite a few years ago. It was sad. She just kind of died
semi-suddenly, I think. I think she had cancer.
13
Barte: My favorite Evalyn story is in College Relations, we used to do a staff/faculty newsletter. We
would print and send out the newsletter to staff and faculty twice a month.
Dornan: Yes.
Barte: At one point, we decided that we would have a regular, recurring column of Greener Past
Years—Greener Pastures, but Past Years. I would run around campus and I would ask folks, “Did you
have any interesting prior careers that we can write about?” I learned a lot about some of my
coworkers.
Walter Niemiec told me that he was a bouncer in a bar. He said, “I was rather small in stature,
so I had to quell many a feisty situation with my tongue.” [laughter] I learned Patrick Hill was a
balladeer. He would sing ballads in Irish pubs in New York and Boston.
Dornan: Oh, that is interesting.
Barte: Oh, it was wonderful. I loved it. But when I asked Evalyn Poff if she had any interesting careers,
she said, “Well, I was a trapeze artist.” I just took a double take!
Dornan: That’s right!
Barte: I went “Really?” She told me the story that when she was a teenager, she was babysitting and
took the kid to the park. The kid could not do the monkey bars. She just couldn’t figure out how to
negotiate the monkey bars, so Evalyn got up and showed her. “You do this.” All of a sudden, a man
walked up to her and said, “You know, you’re very good at that. Have you ever thought of joining the
circus?” He handed her a business card and said, “Can I come and talk to your dad about it?”
Sure enough, that night—she never thought the man would follow up, but he rang the bell and
he sat down and talked to Evalyn’s father. And Evalyn’s father said, “No. No way!” Until he heard what
the financial repercussions would be. Then all of a sudden he was “Where do I sign? Where do I sign?”
[laughter]
It was so funny. I was quite young, and I remember when she first told me a trapeze artist, I
said, “Holy smokes! Are you kidding me?” Well, Evalyn brought in a picture the next day of her and the
feather and the net stockings, and she was sitting on a little swing. And I went, “Holy smokes!” She was
beautiful. But, yeah, that was my Evalyn story. Every time I’d go by the Payroll Office and I’d see her at
her desk, I would picture her on the trapeze. [laughter]
Dornan: Oh, yes. She would pull that one every once in a while with a group. They’d say, “What were
you?” “Oh, I was a trapeze artist.” Everything stopped. [laughter] Oh, I liked her very much.
14
Barte: She was.
Dornan: She was very Welsh. She was from Wales.
Barte: I didn’t know that.
Dornan: She was very Welsh. She looked very dark. Remember?
Barte: Yeah, she was.
Dornan: Dark hair. That was the Welsh in her. Oh, we’ve lost some really nice people.
Barte: We have. I think of that often. As I’m walking around campus, I’ll think about some of the folks
we lost.
Dornan: Oh, yeah. And I hear somebody was back—Stone Thomas.
Barte: Yes, he’s working for the President’s Office. He still looks exactly the same.
Dornan: Everybody loves Stone.
Barte: Yes.
Dornan: My son won a turkey a couple of times at the turkey run that Evergreen had for Thanksgiving.
When he was in high school, he let his hair go and he had an Afro. People used to say to me, “Oh! Why
do you let your son [have that hairdo]?” I said, “Look. If this is how he wants to be, he could be stealing
cars, he could be drinking himself—so he lets his own personality show by letting his hair grow. I’m
happy.”
His picture was in the newspaper as he won something. I cut it out and I framed it, and I’ve
given it to his grandson, who also is a runner. Anyway, Stone saw it in the paper and he said, “Did he get
a permanent?” I said, “No, that’s his real hair.” “Oh, oh!” He said, “You let him do it?” I said, “Yeah.
It’s a lot better than stealing cars, don’t you think?” And he laughed. But now Graham looks at it.
[laughter] But he was skinny. Real skinny.
Barte: Is he here in town?
Dornan: Yes. Actually, he lives around Alderbrook.
Barte: Oh, very pretty.
Dornan: He lives on the golf course there at Alderbrook. He plays a lot of golf. He was a golf pro there
for a while. But that’s a terrible business for a married person. You never see them. They’re at a
tournament here, a tournament there. They have to do what the members want. They’re never home.
Barte: And there’s no money in it.
15
Dornan: The reason I put these together [papers shuffling] I was looking at something here. There’s
something. It isn’t here. Oh, well.
I’ve got a couple of pictures [of] when I worked there. We wanted to advertise where I worked.
I dressed up as the—
Barte: Oh, I remember that! The Statue of Liberty! You were.
Dornan: I have that somewhere. All that was was a long piece of fabric that I just wound around.
Barte: You sure looked like the Statue of Liberty! [laughing] You did a good job.
[Ms. Dornan steps out of the room 00:49:30 through 00:50:07]
Dornan: I’ve got this. I thought you might get a kick out of it. Remember these?
Barte: Oh, yes, the Evergreen portfolio. I do remember. Was it the faculty had blue and we had red? It
was blue and red, yes.
Dornan: I’ve got all my stuff in here.
Barte: Oh my goodness, Ellie. Aw-w-w.
Dornan: I read it. And the papers. I’m thinking of throwing them now.
Barte: Goodness gracious you held onto it this long.
Dornan: I held onto it this long. I’ve got all sorts of letters that I read. This is from Chuck Fowler. It was
a recommendation for a job. Those are my transcripts from first grade to high school.
Barte: Wow. Lots of memories.
Dornan: Yeah. Oh, this was what I put together for Margaret Gribskov for [college? 00:51:36]. I had to
do a research project. “Work-related characteristics of the employee student.” That was a fun thing.
Barte: That’s a name I haven’t thought of in years, Margaret.
Dornan: Yes. I think Margaret is no longer with us.
Barte: I don’t think so, no.
Dornan: I had visited her some years ago. She moved back to Oregon, to Portland. Had a lovely old
home. She lost her oldest son. He died of cancer, which was sad. But she had a daughter . . . Maya,
Melanie? Something like that. She went to work for the FBI. I got a call one day from the FBI asking me
for—and he asked me a question about Margaret’s daughter. I said yes, I knew her, and she was a fine
woman. He said, “Would she plot to overthrow the government?” Something like that. I said, “Do you
16
really have to ask that question?” He said, “Yes.” I said, “Come on. She’s a young woman. I guess you
just want an answer. No, she wouldn’t!” But I thought, what a stupid question. We chatted for a while
and I recommended her, for what it was worth. I don’t know. I pay my taxes and I’ve never been to jail.
[laughing]
Barte: Can you remember any of the other ladies who were on the Wild Water Women?
Dornan: Let me think.
Barte: I know Joanne Jirovec was on it.
Dornan: Yes, Joanne was. Jovanna Brown, her husband was also a faculty.
Barte: I can picture that woman walking into our office in College Relations and telling Keith Eisner what
had happened about the boat overturning, and that they thought you were under the boat and they
thought you were drowned. [laughter] I cannot picture who she was. She was fairly close to Joanne.
They were the same height.
Dornan: She was on the trip.
Barte: Maxine [Mimms]?
Dornan: Maxine never went on the rafting.
Barte: Okay. Joye Hardiman. Was she in it? [Lee Holman? 00:55:10]?
Dornan: No, they didn’t go. They might have been in one of the ones on campus.
Barte: Would Sue Washburn have been in it?
Dornan: No, she didn’t either. I was very close to Sue Washburn. We were good friends. I visited her
in New York a couple of times. Went the week between Christmas and New Year’s. Snow up to here. It
was fun though.
I can see faces. I’ll tell you what I’ll do. I’ll talk to Dee Van Brunt one day. She’s got her son
here from Las Vegas. He’s helping her do some painting in the house, and when he goes tomorrow—we
usually get together at least a couple of times a month and have dinner somewhere. We like to go
down to Anthony’s. She keeps up with quite a few of them, especially the staff that was in the—
because Dee was the manager of the entertainment center.
Barte: The COM Building.
Dornan: Yes.
Barte: I didn’t realize that. I always pictured her up in the . . .
17
Dornan: Yes, so did I. But they called her back. They just couldn’t seem to get anybody to do the job.
Dee can be quite forceful if need be. She ran that and was close to the faculty who were involved in that
building. The arts people, primarily. She’s got a good memory for names. I’ll talk to her about it and we
can come up with some names. I can come up with faces, which doesn’t help at all. But names, I’ve
lately had trouble. That’s where my memory goes, in names. Let’s see. I see faces. Who went? Yeah,
they were faculty who aren’t there now, most of them.
Barte: Was Barbara Smith?
Dornan: Yes, Barbara Smith. She was always with us. She might have a better memory. Yes. It was
usually Joanne and Barbara that kind of did the original planning, and then we took little segments of it,
like where we would go. Then they would talk to people about “How would you like to go blah blah or
blah?” They’d say, “Yes.” That started with the river rafting. I know we can’t ask Joanne, but [Barbara]
was always deeply involved in the arrangements of these things. I’m going to take a quick look through
here [papers shuffling] and see if I . . . I haven’t looked through here for a while . . . and see if there’s
some notes that I made.
Barte: All your evaluations. Ellie, you saved everything.
Dornan: Oh, yeah.
Barte: You’ve got a time capsule here. [laughter]
Dornan: Yeah, I did.
Barte: Your class schedules?
Dornan: Yeah. Irene Delgado. Remember her?
Barte: Oh, yes.
Dornan: Dean Clabaugh. Dean Clabaugh!
Barte: That’s right.
Dornan: Dean Clabaugh was the one that they hired early. Greg Vermillion. Do you remember Greg?
He was Director of Admissions. I applied for a job in Admissions, because we were kind of moving
people around, giving staff members a chance to work in other departments.
Barte: Wasn’t he a coach at St. Martin’s College? Greg Vermillion?
Dornan: Yes, I believe he was.
18
Barte: He just died. In fact, his wife just died. Her funeral was Saturday, and he died not too very long
ago, maybe not even a year ago.
Dornan: Oh.
Barte: That’s funny that you say that. I never knew about them—
Dornan: Ted [Gerstel?] was my faculty a lot. This was Cathy Wolfe. I don’t know why I was writing
about her. She was our County Commissioner for years.
Barte: Oh, that’s right. I knew I knew the name.
Dornan: Ed Kormondy. Greg Vermillion. Here’s some names.
Barte: Because I remember when Joe Olander did that, how he took everybody else’s job for a week.
Dornan: Yes.
Barte: He was the mailman, and he came in with shorts and the helmet, delivering our mail.
Dornan: I’ll just take a quick flash through these then.
Barte: Wow. Trip down memory lane.
Dornan: I might get some names. “Assertiveness and the Single Woman.” “That should be spiffed up,”
she said.
Barte: Oh, dear. Who said that?
Dornan: Margaret.
Barte: Oh, Gribskov?
Dornan: “It should be spiffed up.”
Barte: “Conflict and the Manager.” Oh, Ken Donahue. That’s who I worked for. He was a strange man.
He was stone deaf, and he thought everybody in the group, if they were over there laughing, they were
laughing at him. That’s the attitude he had. He had a very nasty wife. J-u-uune. Everybody said, “Oh,
Ju-u-u-ne.” She was prissy and worked for one of the deans, and she was determined that anybody who
worked for Donahue was going to get dragged through the—she was a bitch. I almost didn’t make it
through my three months because at home she’d say to him, “Now, Ellie didn’t—she didn’t—oh! She
didn’t!” Blah blah blah. He had a list a mile long of things that he was—
What Personnel did, they just neglected to tell him that I was at the end of my three months. I
knew. I didn’t say anything. Personnel didn’t say anything. They didn’t call and tell him. The day after,
he came in livid and he said, “You knew! You knew all the time, didn’t you? You knew!” I said, “Knew
19
what?” He said, “That you had passed your”—and I said, “Yes.” “You knew!” I said, “Yes.” He said, “It’s
too late now, isn’t it? It’s too late!” And he was “Blah blah blah blah!” He went crashing down, and I
called ahead and I said, “He’s coming.” They said, “We can handle him.”
Barte: Who was Personnel at the time?
Dornan: Rita Cooper. No, it wasn’t Rita Cooper. It was a woman before Rita Cooper. Because I got that
painting. She used to have get-togethers with this artist and invite Evergreeners over to their place.
They lived on the fairway out in Lacey there, the golf course.
Barte: Capitol City.
Dornan: Capitol City. So, he went crashing down to Personnel. Burke . . . I keep saying Burke . . . what
was her name? Brown hair. Cute.
Barte: It’ll come to you when you’re not thinking about it.
Dornan: She was there for a long time. Anyway, they said, “We’ll take care of him.” He came back and
I saw the list on his desk of all the things he was going to [do to her?]. I just played it cool. Didn’t smile
or anything. I said, “Yeah.” Well, his wife was just furious. Then they had to fire [two? 01:06:38], and,
of course, she worked for the Dean that they fired, and she got fired. I didn’t have much trouble with
him after she left there. We got so that I got a glowing evaluation. It was funny. Then, when he was
fired, I saw him some months later and he said, “Oh, you were always my benchmark. Whenever I had
another secretary, you were”—and I thought, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I didn’t say anything. But he was
fired. He made so many enemies because he thought people were against him.
Barte: Quite the insecurity problem.
Dornan: Yeah. One of the women that worked there, too, her husband was one of the managers. I’m
trying to think what his name was. I don’t think it was here. [papers shuffling] I don’t know whether it
was Ken Donahue. [Unintelligible 01:08:07] Studies and Administration take-home test. Hmm.
Barte: When did you go up to Development?
Dornan: Let’s see. I started in ’72. It was after I graduated, so that must have been—’78 is when I
graduated, so it must have been in ’78.
Barte: Did you go up there as Alumni Director?
Dornan: I went there as Alumni. Then I moved to Development, where [I? they?] actually wrote the
letter then and took care of the mailing of the letter that we sent out for money.
20
Barte: Annual fund?
Dornan: Annual fund. I did that for a long time. Then we were going to have another round of getting
money, and everything went kerflooey at that point. We had a Board of Directors, and one of the Board
of Directors—Chan? Was that his name?—he got really cranky and he didn’t think that public schools
should ask for money because they got tax money. He didn’t realize how much the tax money did not
cover. He insulted our department. “We shouldn’t have to ask people for money.” Sue Washburn quit,
and then John quit.
Barte: John Gallagher?
Dornan: Yeah. So that just left Don Chalmers and me and the fellow that died.
Barte: Forrest Wilcox.
Dornan: Exactly. It just left the three of us. Don Chalmers thought that he was going to be taking over.
And I said, “The hell you are.” What happened was he would sequester the budget. Every time it came
in, he would grab it. When I was interviewed with Les, I told him. He said, “Why aren’t you handling it?”
I said, “How can I do it? I can’t fight against Don Chalmers. He’s got karate. He just quietly goes—I
caught onto it for a while, and then I would go down and I would get it first.” Then I told—oh, he was
such a sweet man—the accountant—he said, “You get it before Don Chalmers,” and I said, “Yes.” And
I’d go over it, and I’d see things on it that he had bought. He was supposed to discuss it and he didn’t.
And the budget was a mess. It was a small budget.
Les kind of yelled at me, why did I let that happen? I said, “We were supposed to work as a trio.
I did my best, but I finally went and got the budget early and discovered that all these things that Don
Chalmers wanted, and we were not budgeting [for them].” He said, “All right then. You are in charge of
the budget.” Well, I straightened it out fast. I wasn’t afraid of Don Chalmers, but the thing was he was
so sneaky. I was trying to keep a good level. Then we got a new person and she was fine.
Barte: [Patty Firman?
Dornan: No, Patty . . . who was Patty?
Barte: It was a B. Beaumont?
Dornan: I get e-mails from her, for God’s sake.
Barte: She went up to the Point Defiance Zoo from Evergreen.
Dornan: Yes, she did. She just wasn’t suited, I mean, wasn’t a good fit. I got along with her fine. I liked
her. But I couldn’t see myself—there I was at 66 and I knew that I would never be Director, and I didn’t
21
want it. I wasn’t that interested in it. I thought, at 66, I can always do something else. Just get out of
there. It was getting—I saw the letter I wrote [laughing] to the deans. Remember when there was that
big brouhaha about the President?
Barte: Olander?
Dornan: Olander.
Barte: Yes, I do.
Dornan: I wrote a scathing letter to Dave about how dare he—
Barte: Dave?
Dornan: He was there for years. I’m just trying to think where I’ll see his name.
Barte: Who was he?
Dornan: He did night school. I saw the letter. Just a second. [papers shuffling]
Barte: Not Dave Kormondy?
Dornan: Oh, “Excellent.” Oh, I like seeing this. [laughter]
Barte: And who says we don’t give grades at Evergreen?
Dornan: Had to type these things in those days.
Barte: I remember.
Dornan: “Excellent specific example. Well described”! [laughter]
Barte: Just sets your heart aflutter.
Dornan: Oh, gadzooks! I do have that letter, and I re-read it yesterday. I thought, hey, did I write that?
I got compliments from the deans!
Barte: About Joe Olander?
Dornan: I really told him off.
Barte: Good.
Dornan: There were two faculty that went to the newspaper.
Barte: Oh, Dave Hitchens. I’m sorry, I’m picturing the dean. Yes. So, go ahead.
Dornan: Yes. I had been his student in the night school. I liked him a lot. He was a good teacher.
Barte: He was.
22
Dornan: But the thing is, I was furious. To drag Evergreen—you know, we were in problems just trying
desperately to please the townspeople and he brings this up. He should have gone to the Board of
Trustees. That’s their job. Quietly. I was livid, and I went at him tooth and nail, and how disappointed I
was in him. And how dare he speak for me as a student? If there was any wrongdoing, it should have
gone to the Board of Trustees. That’s what their job is.
Barte: You’re right.
Dornan: I really blew him. It was a long letter.
Barte: Good for you.
Dornan: He kept away from me for a while. I got a nice letter from Olander, thanking me.
Barte: Oh, good.
Dornan: I mean, if it was true or not true, that was not my bailiwick. There were others. Yes, he should
be fired if he had claimed he had a Ph.D. and he didn’t. But that’s not my job, and that’s not the
students’ job, and it’s not the faculty’s job. And it was in the newspaper.
Barte: Oh my goodness.
Dornan: That’s what ticked me.
Barte: Pages and pages and pages.
Dornan: He had gone to the newspaper. That worked out. [chuckles] Olander left. Olander did invite
me to lunch after he was gone, but then he had to cancel because he was going to China, I think, to
apply for a job. He worked in China for a while, if you recall.
Barte: Yeah, I do.
Dornan: I liked him.
Barte: I did, too. He always remembered my name. Going through the halls he would say, “Hi, Pat.
How are the boys?” Who am I? Just a poor little secretary.
Dornan: Yes.
Barte: But he always remembered my name. And when you said “going around,” he did that. Every
single Friday he would go to every single office and tell everybody, “Now, have a good weekend. Forget
about this place for the weekend.” Every office on campus, and I’ve never seen an administrator do
that. I give him a lot of credit.
Dornan: And he did get involved in activities, too.
23
Barte: He did. He went to Super Saturday. He invited us to his home after Super Saturday. He did, he
got very involved in the college, so I give him credit for that.
Dornan: That was a big undertaking.
Barte: Super Saturday? Oh my goodness.
Dornan: I was glad when they stopped because it just took too much out of everybody.
Barte: It was exhausting.
Dornan: The poor staff who did the cleanup. Bonnie. Remember Bonnie?
Barte: Custodial?
Dornan: Wasn’t she a cleanup person.
Barte: Yes, the blonde gal. Custodial. Bonnie Ward. Kind of tall, blonde. Big glasses.
Dornan: Yes.
Barte: In fact, she just retired a few years ago, not too very long ago. Just maybe the year before last.
Yeah, we had a lot of good people.
Dornan: Olander was President when whatsherface was killed.
Barte: Which one?
Dornan: Wanda. No, not Wanda.
Barte: A student?
Dornan: Joanne.
Barte: Oh, Joanne Jirovec?
Dornan: Yeah.
Barte: Yeah, he would have been.
Dornan: I got word from Evergreen through my daughter, Julie—she works there—and one of the guys
that used to be on the security, he used to be the typewriter man. Remember?
Barte: Oh, yes. Larry Savage.
Dornan: And all of a sudden he was on security. He was there for years and years and years. He called
my Julie and he said, “Tell your mom that Dave Jirovec is dead. He died in prison.”
Barte: Oh, he did die? See, I keep asking my husband but he didn’t know if he died or not.
24
Dornan: Yes, he died in prison some years ago. It wasn’t that long, really, because Dave Jirovec sent
some stuff to Karen. He thought he was innocent and he sent all the—that’s what they do, the
prisoners. They have nothing else to do.
Barte: Exactly.
Dornan: He sent a bunch of papers, and I felt that, well, I was a witness, for God’s sake. I got called. I
don’t know why. I had more interviews with more cops and more lawyers, and I didn’t know her that
well. We went to the events together. She was on the second floor, although for nine months, I did
work for Will Humphreys, so she was very helpful to me [on] how the deans do things. That’s as close as
we ever got. We decided to walk together for a while. I’m 5’2”, she’s 6’2”.
Barte: I do know.
Dornan: I was going [acting something out]. When I would walk fast, she would go [acting something
out]. It just didn’t work out. But I had police coming up my patoot.
Barte: That was a sad time at Evergreen. Very, very sad.
Dornan: Yeah. The guy that was the Chief of Police—
Barte: Gary Russell?
Dornan: Gary Russell. Sweet boy.
Barte: He was.
Dornan: Remember when that woman, that student, got killed?
Barte: Elisa Tissot.
Dornan: Her boyfriend came in and shot her dead.
Barte: Yes, shot her right there in the cafeteria.
Dornan: Walked out. You know where there’s that big mound with the concrete?
Barte: The bus stop.
Dornan: He left the gun on there and walked out. Our security man had to go after him, and he didn’t
know that he didn’t have his gun. That was a very brave thing that he did. Remember, they had
jackets—blazers—on. Very collegiate.
Barte: Yes, I do. [laughing]
25
Dornan: And he’s chasing after this guy who had a gun and just shot his girlfriend. That was amazing.
That was a terrible thing. I don’t think we have those kinds of things anymore, do they?
Barte: God, I hope not. We’ve had our fair share.
Dornan: Yes, we have.
Barte: Well, do we have any positive things to say? [laughter] On that sad note.
Dornan: Well, it’s those kinds of things that we remember because it was so emotional at the time.
Barte: Oh, yes. That was so frightening because we didn’t know. Is he going to just walk around
shooting people? We had no idea who he was.
Dornan: No. But the City Police did catch him, or County. I don’t know.
Barte: I don’t know if he’s still alive or not.
Dornan: He would have been in prison.
Barte: I hope so.
Dornan: There wasn’t that big a fuss made about it. It was in the paper.
Barte: It was.
Dornan: We never know, do we?
Barte: No, we don’t.
Dornan: God, I’ll drink to that. [laughter] My dear, I don’t see anything other than this.
Barte: That’s a lot. You’ve got a lot of history just sitting here on your table.
Dornan: These are all the faculty evaluations. God, that’s a lot.
Barte: It is.
Dornan: Faculty evaluation. Life cycles. Oh, Eric Larson!
Barte: Oh, I had Eric Larson!
Dornan: Eric Larson.
Barte: I understand he went to Eastern Washington.
Dornan: Did he?
Barte: I have no idea. But, yeah, he was my faculty. And he was Keith Eisner’s. When he found out I
worked for Keith Eisner, he said, “Oh, yes. Keith Eisner. He wrote a brilliant paper on The Great Gatsby.
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Dornan: Oh, I love The Great Gatsby!
Barte: “He wrote a brilliant paper on The Great Gatsby.”
Dornan: This is “Studies in US History.” Oh, yeah. “Overcoming Math and Writing Anxieties.”
Barte: Still haven’t overcome math anxiety.
Dornan: Oh, Margaret Gribskov. “She writes lucidly and knows how to locate information in the fields
in which she has studied and worked.” When I get down in the dumps, I should read some of these.
Barte: Read your evaluations. That’s right. I wish I’d kept mine.
Dornan: When did you graduate?
Barte: ’92. But unlike you, I think I took like eight to 10 years to graduate because I was only taking the
four quarters, four credits a quarter.
Dornan: Yes. I went a couple of summers . . .
Barte: Yes, I did.
Dornan: . . . which helped. I think I took full credit for that summer.
Barte: It was tough. My little pet peeve that I’ve always had was we always used to have a staff
speaker at graduation. In addition to the student speaker, the MPA speaker and the faculty speaker,
they used to have a staff speaker as well. Marta Moore? —remember Marta Moore in the bookstore?
Dornan: I do.
Barte: Wonderful woman. We were in class together and we were both graduating together, and she
said one day that she was going to campaign to be the staff speaker at Commencement. She said, “I
want to be staff speaker at graduation.” I said, “Go for it.” And she did. She campaigned. But in the
middle of the school year they decided that in the interest of time—because the ceremony was getting
so long—that they would eliminate the staff speaker. Poor Marta Moore was crushed. She was just
devastated.
Dornan: Aw-w-w.
Barte: Maryrose Livingston ironically was a student in the Office of College Relations and she was an
MES graduate, and she was elected the graduate speaker. I have no idea what her speech was about,
but all of a sudden she let out with “And by the way”—and she pounded on the podium, yelling,—“why
is it that we don’t have a staff speaker at this ceremony? Are you telling these people they are good
enough to clean your toilets and type your evaluations, but they’re not good enough to speak to you at
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your graduation?” Everyone in the audience was just [shocked face]. I was looking at everyone up on
the podium, all the Trustees and whatnot, and they’re all [shocked face].
Dornan: I’ll bet they were! [laughter]
Barte: And Jose Gomez, if you remember Jose Gomez?
Dornan: Yes.
Barte: He just happened to be sitting next to me in the row and he leaned over and said, “Why isn’t
there a staff speaker?” See, no one even noticed. No one noticed that there was no staff speaker. I just
shrugged and said, “The ceremony was getting too long so they cut the staff.” He said, “Hmm.” And he
leaned back straight in his chair. Right after she spoke—Les Purce was the President at the time—he got
up to the podium once he was done and he’d get up to introduce the next speaker, and he walks up to
the podium and he goes “Ooh! Should we call the fire department now?” [laughter] It was ’92 when I
graduated.
Dornan: [The] signature on my diploma? Dan Evans was President then.
Barte: He was a good man, a good President.
Dornan: He is a good man, for a Republican.
Barte: But he was more like a Democrat then.
Dornan: He was. He was fair.
Barte: Mm-hm.
Dornan: Except he used our retirement funds to balance the budget, and they’ve never paid them back.
Barte: Oh, I didn’t know that.
Dornan: Dee Van Brunt’s husband never forgave him for that. I don’t think it’s ever been done since.
Barte: What do you think, Ellie? Do we have any more Evergreen memories?
Dornan: I don’t think so at this point. If I think of things, I’ll write them down.
Barte: Okay.
Dornan: I’ve got your letter, so I’ve got your number. I can call you.
Barte: Sure.
Dornan: After I went to the Senate, this is what it amounted to. The fellow who was the attorney for
the Republicans—his name was Hoover—he was the funniest guy in the world, and he put that
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together. He gave me a loving cup that said it was for “Having the Biggest File on Record for Going After
the Guys.” Then he sent me that. I had a good time in the Senate.
Barte: So it would seem. [laughing] This is so cute. It’s a call from Uncle Sam. Oh, Iron Ellie! How cute.
Oh my goodness. How could they have made up this stuff?
Dornan: Oh, there it is.
Barte: There’s the Lady Liberty. Oh my goodness, I remember that.
Dornan: That’s a telephone.
Barte: Right. How cute. Yeah, we had some good times.
Dornan: Yes, we did.
Barte: I remember Debbie Garrington moving her desk out to the campus plaza and having her little
phone there. They took a picture of that and said “Evergreen calling.”
Dornan: Oh, that’s cute. I love Debbie.
Barte: Oh, I do, too.
Dornan: She’s just a heart of gold. She left me her phone number. I’m going to have to give her a call
one day.
Barte: You should.
Dornan: I’ll have to call her.
Barte: Yeah, you should.
Dornan: I will call her.
Barte: Okay, so should I shut this off?
Dornan: Yes.
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